Introduction:

Welcome to Preacher P.S. Today, we’ll hear some additional thoughts about this past Sunday’s teaching shared at Walnut Creek Presbyterian Church in the San Francisco Bay Area. We’ll get inside the meaning of the sermon and the heart of the preacher as we consider the why, what, and how of the message.

Ivanna Brazier:

I’m your host, Ivanna Brazier, and today I have the privilege of having a conversation with Bart Garrett, who preached the sermon from the Follow series on Sabbath. A link to that sermon is in the show notes. And it’s great to talk with you, Bart.

Bart Garrett:

You as well, Ivanna.

Ivanna Brazier:

Happy Lent.

Bart Garrett:

Is that what we say? We say Lent, Lent, Lent, Expectant Lent. Expectant Lent, Anticipatory Lent.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yes.

Bart Garrett:

I’m going to go ahead and say, Ivanna, you know when you fast, you’re not supposed to tell anyone because you lose your reward. When you have to record a second podcast, you’re not supposed to tell anyone or you’ll lose your reward. Uh oh, but we didn’t put the card in our podcast cart, which means we just recorded this into the air. It was the best podcast we’ve ever done.

Ivanna Brazier:

And no one will ever get to hear it, which is how I ended the last podcast.

Bart Garrett:

So here we are, round two.

Ivanna Brazier:

Round two. Yeah, we’re here. We’re at Lent. If you came today and you didn’t come to Ash Wednesday, this was the first of the Lent series in your mind. But for others, it is the second of the Lent series because we started it actually on Ash Wednesday and we did a podcast on that as well. And the spiritual practice for Ash Wednesday was solitude. But today we were talking about Sabbath, and you mentioned that there were things that you were saving for the podcast that you weren’t going to bring up in the sermon.

Bart Garrett:

Yes. Yeah. So a quick word on Lent, just as a reminder. I mean, there are these nine practices. We kind of have this compendium or companion to John Mark Comer’s book, Practicing the Way. But the beauty of being in Mark is that these are nine practices. We’re, you know, stealing from Jesus, essentially. Like these are nine practices in Jesus’ life. So we’re looking at how and why Jesus practiced them. So solitude, you know, today, Sabbath, seven more to go. Yeah, and I mentioned we had this podcast twice today in the sermon, reminded people that we preach shorter sermons here. All God’s people said amen. Because attention spans are not what they used to be. And this gives us a chance to just sort of be a little more extensive. And so I wanted to talk for a moment about the whole debate on Sabbath and the history of the church. And then maybe we can end our time back and forth on some practices.

Ivanna Brazier:

Sure.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. So you should know that Sabbath has been debated for a couple thousand years. And I think the three major movements of debate could be described as the if, when, and how. Okay, if there should be a Sabbath, when it should be, how it should be practiced. So the if is this recognition that the Sabbath shows up, as I mentioned, in both renditions of the Ten Commandments, Exodus and Deuteronomy.

Ivanna Brazier:

Okay.

Bart Garrett:

However, some Christians look at those laws given by Moses and wonder, are these ceremonial? Are they customary? Do they have any moral import? Today, Jesus has come. He is our Sabbath. There’s no reason to be dutiful in the practice of Sabbath.

Ivanna Brazier:

Right.

Bart Garrett:

But that debate was long fought and hard won to essentially say, no, that’s not exactly right, because this is a creation mandate. God rests as a model to our own liberation and satisfaction. We should rest as well. So the if debate, I would say, has been resolved. If. Yes, there should be. Second question, when? So in the Gospel of John, there are three or four moments, I think, where kind of the resurrection day is referred to as the eighth day of the week or the first day of the new week, which is this.

Ivanna Brazier:

I’ve noticed that.

Bart Garrett:

Yes, beautiful moment. That the resurrection is the beginning of a new world order. It’s a new chapter. And the beauty of this, practically, is that Christians are called no longer to work for rest, so we have a weekend, but to work from rest. Because Sabbath is on the first day of the week or the eighth day of the new week.

Ivanna Brazier:

Got it.

Bart Garrett:

We are resting in God, which prepares us to move out into the world and have the work of our hands Monday through Friday or Saturday, blessed. So, you know, there are denominations that are built upon different expressions of the when Sabbath question.

Ivanna Brazier:

Right.

Bart Garrett:

I would say we kind of land in that lane of it’s the first day of the week, and we celebrate on Sunday as the Lord’s Day, as Resurrection Sunday. And lastly, the great debate’s been on how. And so in our tradition, the Westminster Confession, other places like Heidelberg, talks about works of piety, necessity and mercy. So if you want to keep Sabbath holy, then these are works of piety. So our devotion, our worship, our prayer and Scripture, these are works of necessity. So if you need to prepare a meal for your family, don’t prepare lavishly, but, you know, get it done. It’s necessary. And then thirdly, mercy, you know, Jesus, most of his healings occur on the Sabbath. And so we are to be merciful. There’s been a lot of debate about should we abstain from recreation and worldly employments on the Sabbath. Yeah, I actually think in our circles at least, that debate was lost. That we recognize there is joy and beauty and delight that’s given to the deep rest that Sabbath is for us in Hebrews 4 and other places. So, yeah, that’s kind of the history of the debate. Maybe last thing I’ll say there is don’t assume by debate that means, oh, well, it’s not really that important. The church’s been fighting about it for 2000 years. Don’t worry about it. No, it is so important that the church has deliberated and prayerfully so on this question for 2,000 years.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah, that’s true. In fact, it was so important to me to consider what is the Sabbath for and how to do it that it took me a whole year before I finally felt comfortable implementing the Cottage Sundays, because I didn’t want to turn that day into an opportunity for people who regularly work at the cottage to get more work done down there. But I wanted to create an opportunity for our congregation to come in and serve if that was something that they felt was missing from their life and in their worship of God because of their work schedule not being, you know, congruent with our serving schedule at the cottage.

Bart Garrett:

That’s right. Yeah. I think I mentioned in the lost podcast that should not be named that I think that’s a beautiful application because it. If mercy and justice are kind of the warp and woof of God’s shalom, then a Cottage Sunday is truly a merciful bringing of the restoration of the way the world is supposed to be.

Ivanna Brazier:

And it really is a huge blessing to our regular cottage volunteers because there’s not enough time for them to get done what needs to be done down there so we can serve so much more effectively because of that. So it’s a beautiful thing. So the middle hour today was specifically on the practice of Sabbath as we’re inviting people into today. How are we entering into Lent as a community? And in that, Tommy talked about each of the practices and an application that he’s inviting us and encouraging us to consider. So I was wondering if you wanted to speak a little bit about some of the practical ways that we could do Sabbath.

Bart Garrett:

Yes. So one of the things Tommy points out that’s in this Follow companion guide, which I hope everyone will pick up, because I’m very proud of it and I think our church staff did a great job with it. But is this notion of finding four hours and maybe it’s a four hour Sabbath. And I think I’ll take this occasion to say, I think when we’re preaching there’s very much this like celestial skyscraping, aspirational theological vision.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah.

Bart Garrett:

So I very intentionally did not mention making your Sabbath four hours. Because it’s one day in seven and there should be some deliberation and prayer around that. But you have to start somewhere. And I think a great practice is this recognition that four hours would be a great place to start. You had a great idea about that.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. So in my first seminary class, we were going through a very similar set of practices that was on how we could discern our vocational calling in the church. And the one that stuck out to me in that class was Sabbath.

Bart Garrett:

Because it was, thank God, seminary is not a devotional practice.

Ivanna Brazier:

That would be a very expensive devotional practice. [laughter]

Bart Garrett:

Just kidding.

Ivanna Brazier:

Sabbath. I had known this before, but it was, you know, studying it anew and studying it afresh. The idea that the Hebrew Sabbath started on Friday night because the Jews were being called to work from rest. So the first thing they do on the Sabbath is they spend Friday. They get everything ready so that they have nothing left to do. Then they go to sleep on Friday and then they wake up and they have nothing but joy in the Lord for the rest of the 24 hours. And so as Tommy was talking about a four hour Sabbath, I was thinking, well, how could you do that all in one day? That sounds hard even for me, who loves Sabbathing. What if you kind of thought about it in the Hebrew sense and you got everything ready on a Friday or Saturday night, you did your dishes and then you just enjoyed two hours with your family or your loved ones. You went to sleep and in the morning you woke up and you did two more hours of Sabbathing before you did any other work. You have like a really nice pajama morning.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah, I love it. I think that’s a great idea. I think it hits a lot of different ages and stages. I think there are like the youth sports families that could practice this early before the game or practice it late after the game. My add on to your great idea is if that is not the best night for you, if you move it to Saturday night and go to the 11:00am which is God’s favorite, favorite service, then you’d have the Sunday morning to do that last two hours after a wind down on Saturday, which is great. That’s a great practice. I think it should not go without saying that digital detoxing is probably necessary with most practices that we’re talking about, especially Sabbath, because we are enslaved to our devices.

Ivanna Brazier:

That’s true.

Bart Garrett:

And I try really hard to keep my phone away from me on Fridays, which is kind of my off day, Sabbath day. And sometimes I do a really good job of that and sometimes I feel restless because I haven’t done a good job with that. And I still feel tethered to the rest of my life for that whole day. And that’s a challenge. So I think families need to figure that out as a portion of the Sabbath. Especially if you have kids that are teenagers, you know.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. I think that that’s probably been the biggest pushback in our family from my kids is the digital. Hold on. I wish there was an easy answer for that, but I just really think that it is. The vice of our time is scrolling and email and all of that.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. And I think a principle here, as we think about practice is most of these practices, especially Sabbath, are permission structures to put down some things, not pick up more stuff. So it’s not, hey, you really need to practice Sabbath. It’s hey, Ivanna, wouldn’t it be amazing if you heard Jesus saying to you, you can put down your phone, don’t worry about it. Your unrelenting boss who is at your church making you finish that assignment? Yeah, don’t worry about it.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah.

Bart Garrett:

You know, the cleaning out the garage, you know, that you keep putting off. Keep putting it off.

Ivanna Brazier:

Keep putting it off.

Bart Garrett:

Not a Sabbath practice.

Ivanna Brazier:

No.

Bart Garrett:

You know, so it’s permission.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah.

Bart Garrett:

To say no to some things.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. And the other thing I noticed is if we are in a deleting mode because of Sabbath, where we’re deleting work, it’s the kind of spiritual practice that leaves space for the other spiritual practices that we are also struggling to find time for. So, you know, we could add in scripture reading, or we can add in community, or we can add in prayer, or we can add in solitude because we’ve already carved out this time of no work. So fill it with something. You could fill it with these other practices.

Bart Garrett:

Yes, that’s exactly right. Couple other just practices or ways of thinking that are very practical that I would add one recognize avocational time. So a lot of times our work is built around head, heart or hands. And so if you tend to work with your hands throughout the week, then maybe Sabbath involves some head time or some heart time. In our profession, it’s very heart oriented. So we are surfing and suffering, ministering to people, yeah, often. Maybe we need some hand time. Taking up woodworking, you know, some. I wish I took it up more. I should.

Ivanna Brazier:

It’s permission for me to not consider digging a big hole in my backyard and filling it with plants. It’s not work.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah, that’s right. And the most restorative thing I might be able to do on my Sabbath is actually not tend to a merciful act of service, if that’s what I’m giving my entire vocation to. And there are others listening to this that are in the healing and health industry. And that might be true for you. Yeah, yeah. I would say attention to seasons. Okay. Age and stage. So, you know, maybe you’re between jobs and God’s afforded you capacity to have two or three months off. You’re not needing to work. Well, don’t just make it about leisure and vacation. But how do you start injecting Sabbath that might carry you through your next line of work or your next career? Young families, you’re in the valley of the diapers. Having a day, even four hours might be challenging. And just remember the principle. This is a blessing. It’s not intended to be a burden. So it may be getting all three of your kids to nap and you just move the proverbial curtain back and look out the window at the glory of what will be that you will not always be this exhausted.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah.

Bart Garrett:

And maybe that’s just a one hour moment for you.

Ivanna Brazier:

Or maybe there’s another parent who your kids get along with really well and you just get together and let the kids get as dirty and, and, you know, crazy as they do. And you just sit there and you watch it. Isn’t that delightful?

Bart Garrett:

Yes. Temperament is a good practical consideration. If you’re extroverted, maybe your Sabbath needs to have more introverted.

Ivanna Brazier:

Okay.

Bart Garrett:

You know, introspective time. If you’re introverted, maybe it’s having a community meal and kind of drawing yourself into deeper conversation with brothers and sisters in Christ. If you’re older and retired, you know, my mom and dad have said, and others in their group say, you know, they can be lonely and sometimes it’s hard to have the energy and strength to get out. But maybe it’s sort of resisting the fatigue and having those two or three people you’re with on the regular, on a Sabbath matching a young family that says hey, we want to bring. We don’t have grandparents in the area. We want to bring, if you will, surrogate grandma or grandfather to our table. You know, couple other ideas. Like I thought of one granddad who’s in our Wednesday morning groups, the Follow group, men’s apprenticeship. He says that basically his children and grandchildren have taught him how to Sabbath because they do not live locally, but they’ve carved out an hour to be on Zoom with their grandparents to check in every Sabbath. And it’s been such a delightful Sabbath moment for these grandparents.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. One of the few redemptive uses of technology.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. Permission structure, again, you need to make a meal. There’s a family in this church, the husband and wife are from two different countries. Every Sabbath, their meal is a recipe from one of their mothers.

Ivanna Brazier:

That’s so sweet.

Bart Garrett:

Yes. I mean, taking this again, this is permission to be delighted and full of joy because God has blessed you with the capacity to be away from your work, to be away from your phone, whatever it may be. Right. What about you? You think about these things a lot?

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. I mean, one of the things that’s happening is I’m missing the Sabbath thing that I got to do when we still lived in Ohio, and every single Sunday our family would go to church together and then we would go to Rob’s parents’ house and his mom and I would cook a meal together. And it was the opportunity for our kids to have the one big dessert of the weekend. And they were always allowed to have Coca Cola and everybody kind of pitched in to do the dishes. There was a lot of watching Jane Austen movies and just like generally enjoying things together. Going for a walk or going for a hike, walking the dogs together. And when we moved to California, we kind of lost that. But I feel like we did it for nine years as a family. And so my kids, I know in their heart they’re kind of thinking about their families and how they’re going to Sunday with us. I mean, as soon as we’re able to do that again, we will. And what stands in for it kind of now is our community groups. We meet on a Sunday night and we’ve kind of changed it to a potluck style because that’s less of a challenge for everybody. And it fits in for a Sabbath purpose at this time.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. And we’ve done dinners for six, dinners for seven, tables for eight. Maybe for your community group, if you’re listening to this, have one of those potlucks where everyone brings a dish that has a significant family memory attached to it or cultural artifact of your family of origin attached to it, for sure.

Ivanna Brazier:

Call out to our community group. We are currently in a meatloaf era where we’re sharing meatloaf recipes.

Bart Garrett:

Yes, a good casserole covers a multitude of sins in the south. So make it a casserole night. We could do that.

Ivanna Brazier:

Regional food.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I would say not to take the last word if you have more to say, but I just, I really want to underscore Jesus’ bountiful words to us, which are the Sabbath was created for you.

Ivanna Brazier:

Right. Yeah. That’s great.

Bart Garrett:

And if you let that sink in, I mean, wow, you’re actually getting some of your life back. Yeah. Some of your joy back.

Ivanna Brazier:

Life giving stuff.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. Well, I’m glad we were able to do this. The second time’s the charm.

Bart Garrett:

Yes. So probably the best podcast we’ve ever recorded just got lost into the air somewhere, but this one was probably the second best.

Ivanna Brazier:

Yeah. Exactly.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah, exactly. We’ll take a Sabbath from perfection.

Ivanna Brazier:

Perfect.

Bart Garrett:

Yes.

Ivanna Brazier:

That sounds like a great plan. Well, thanks for being here and yeah, we’ll see you next week.

Bart Garrett:

Thanks, Ivanna.

Ivanna Brazier:

See you.