Introduction:

Welcome to Preacher P.S. Today, we’ll hear some additional thoughts about this past Sunday’s teaching shared at Walnut Creek Presbyterian Church in the San Francisco Bay Area. We’ll get inside the meaning of the sermon and the heart of the preacher as we consider the why, what, and how of the message.

Bart Garrett:

Well, hello, I’m your host, Bart Garrett, and today I have the privilege of having a conversation with Rachel Ingram and Matt Daugherty, who did not preach the sermon on Joshua becoming who you are because it’s Student Sunday. So Rachel gave us a little preface to the sermon, a little sermonette, if you will. And then we had our seniors really live into this passage, Joshua 1:1–6, and a link to their comments. And that sermon is in the show notes. So great to be talking with you guys. Student Sunday, another holiday…

Matt Daugherty:

One of our favorite Sundays of the year.

Bart Garrett:

Yes. In fact, every week or every year I say you guys should consider two or three of those a year. And every year you say, absolutely not.

Rachel Ingram:

Yeah, every year it’s a no.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. Such a beautiful day. I, as I have said in years past and this year, I love it as a parent, I love it as a pastor. I love you guys as a parent and as a pastor. It’s just amazing privilege to watch the work that God’s doing in each of your lives as you lead these students. We’re very blessed to have you at WCPC. This is the culmination of all of that. Just a really beautiful day. Would love to hear about the theme because maybe unlike years past, you weren’t just sort of jumping in with something, but you really, I thought, did a beautiful job of weaving into our annual theme of ONE. But I’d love to hear just how you came up with Joshua, the title, how that worked out.

Matt Daugherty:

Yeah, well, I tend to take lead on piecing together the theme. And what that looks like is I come up with a few different ideas, throw them at Rachel, see which ones we like together, and it’s kind of slowly develops out of that. So we knew based off of the ONE series that we would be in Joshua. And just going into it, I really pictured his position as someone young being handed the keys to all of the people of Israel. And I was just picturing our students in that as people who are being handed the future and just saw the relationship relatability of Joshua to our students. And so as I was, I knew I wanted something with kind of the handoff from Moses to Joshua. And so I leaned towards the front half of the book and I wanted to tell myself, I was like, don’t just pick Joshua 1:9, because that’s like the most well known verse in Joshua. So I purposely tried to go before that. And the line that stuck out with me the most was where God tells Joshua and as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. And it just seemed so powerful where it’s Moses, this great figure in the history of scripture and Joshua’s boss for the last 40 odd years, and God speaks straight to Joshua and says, we’re going to have that same relationship and I’m going to trust you. And because of that, you can be strong and courageous and you will know that I’m with you. And for me, that just really screamed identity. It’s one of the three big questions that teenagers ask is it’s identity, purpose, and belonging. So we always try to fit it into one of those three categories. And so it just seemed very identity forward and it kind of just fell into place from there. So, Rachel, I don’t know what your thoughts were on the theme.

Rachel Ingram:

No, I think the only part was we did talk identity, purpose, belonging quite a bit because at one point it was like a mishmash of like, well, it’s actually all three, but really it should just be one. It’ll be easier for them to latch onto it if it’s one thing, because you have to think with Student Sunday, it’s coming from like larger church overview in the ONE series through Matt and I, then to like a third party who’s like, okay, now I’m going to do something with this. So it wasn’t necessarily what were we going to do with Joshua, but I remember the tagline being what was hard, like becoming who you are. That was the part that we struggled with, was like, how are we gonna frame this in such a way that it is student forward that is accessible to them but also in alignment with the ONE series overall?

Bart Garrett:

Yeah, well. Oh, go ahead.

Matt Daugherty:

Right. Just with it being about identity, it’s not just be yourself, like becoming who you are, but it’s who you are and the identity that God has gifted you and allowing them the space to kind of unpack that experience of learning who they are through that identity that God has gifted them.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. I want to linger there for just a second if I can, because I noticed something interesting. And I don’t know if it was your own theological impulse or intuition or if there’s something intentional about it, but becoming who you are is such a fresh way of speaking about identity for a Christian or someone following Jesus or living under the belovedness of God. Because I think our tendency can be theologically to start with Genesis 3 and the fall and to say, you’re no longer who you are, you are now redeemed or restored or forgiven through the work of Christ, which is not untrue. But I think there’s something again, like almost theologically intuitive about you guys saying, no, we start with creation. Like, you were created as you and you’re the only you. And there’s something very beautiful and very unique about that. And part of being in relationship with God is God is redeeming you and forming you and reshaping you and forgiving you and all of those things. But it is a re-establishment of who you are. So I’m just curious, did that come to you intuitively? Were you very intentional about that? Because I don’t think it’s the first step a lot of people take towards Christian identity, but it should be because it’s Genesis 1.

Matt Daugherty:

So, yeah, I can’t say I was super on that wavelength as we were teasing out the theme. But I think that is what came of it as it came together. And I think it was exemplified in a lot of what the seniors were sharing where they were acknowledging that they were more than their mistakes. And I think the message that they get in high school is you fail a test, you’re a failure, you don’t make the team, you’re a loser, you know, and they get identified by their mistakes so much. But the beauty of God’s grace is their identity is greater than that. And God chooses even not to define them by those mistakes, but instead they are known, loved, seen, and they got to kind of unpack that experience where it’s like, you are not the things that you do, it’s actually who you are, something deeper and greater than that. So I think it was more the outflow of where we landed, rather than saying we need to do an identity series based off of a creation sense rather than a false sense.

Bart Garrett:

Thank you, Rachel. I’ll take this question to you first. There’s a lot to coordinate and organize. Yes, middle school students, high school students, period. Yet here you are organizing and orchestrating a service that we were saying involved upwards of 30 something, if not 40 something students. So how do you do that? Are you tired? Will you take a nap this afternoon?

Rachel Ingram:

Unfortunately not, but I mean, that would be the ideal situation. So it all. Well, this year was kind of an anomaly. We have so many new students around right now and so many kids who are new to our church and their families are new to their church that I think in the past, typically what we’ve done is gone. Hey, here are slots. Let’s plug them in. And I started to do that, and Matt was like, well, what if blah, blah, blah wants to do it? Or what if so and so wants to do it? So we kind of did an open, like, all call of who would like to and who wouldn’t. So, yeah, it’s a lot of coordinating with them in particular, and then their parents and telling them what time to be here and all that sort of stuff. And then kids being like, I actually don’t know if I can do that, or I don’t know if I know how to hold a microphone or I don’t know if I want to do that.

Matt Daugherty:

I think I got a 12:03 a.m. text because someone had just gotten back from prom and needed to finish their reflection.

Rachel Ingram:

Oh, yes, I have. You beat that. I have a 2:34 a.m. this morning with a draft of a thing that they were like, hey, can you read it? Because I told them yesterday, I was like, you are not. You cannot blindly say something. I have not at least read through one. That doesn’t mean we have to change it. That just means I need to know generally what is there.

Bart Garrett:

I hope you both had your notifications turned off.

Matt Daugherty:

Absolutely.

Rachel Ingram:

Yeah, I got it this morning.

Matt Daugherty:

That’s kind of the fun part, too, where it’s an experience for them where they not only get the gift of being part of the church service, but they have responsibility to kind of live up to that opportunity. And so we try to hold them to a fairly high standard because we want them to be good examples of themselves. And they always live up to it. Where the church gets to see that just because someone’s young, it doesn’t mean they’re less fit to lead us in a spiritual way. And that’s why I love that we try to have all the students end with, what would their advice be to the congregation? Where they all have their own wisdom and the experiences they’ve had and what God has taught them is something that we all get the chance to learn from. And that’s my favorite part each time is getting to see what they choose to say when they think, if I only had one thing I could say to this congregation, what would it be?

Rachel Ingram:

I would say that, but it’s also the commitment. Like, I’m thinking about the band kids and them sending like, hey, here are song suggestions. And Matt and I coming back with. Okay. Culturally, our congregation is this. So we can do this and we can do this. But I’m thinking about the hours and hours and hours. Ryan Roberts, our director of worship arts, was like, you guys gotta do your homework. Like, and they talked about, like, we listen to the MP3s and we, like, these are the songs that have been listened. I don’t know, cumulatively, like, hours wise. I know they put in eight and a half prior to this morning in rehearsal, and then whatever, they’re practicing on their own. And it shows when they do that. It’s a very cool experience.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah. So let’s give a shout out right now to Ryan Roberts, too.

Rachel Ingram:

Absolutely.

Bart Garrett:

We’re grateful for you guys, but sometimes we forget he puts a lot of time into this particular service. Yeah.

Matt Daugherty:

He and Patrick did so much for this service to be the level of quality that it is.

Rachel Ingram:

Yeah. Ryan, if you don’t know, Ryan’s in the drum cage and he can talk. They can hear him in their ears, but the rest of us cannot. So something goes drastically wrong. Ryan’s got it.

Matt Daugherty:

Yeah. He’s coaching them up mid service, so it’s amazing what he’s able to do.

Bart Garrett:

Well, Patrick and Ryan, thank you.

Matt Daugherty:

Shout out.

Bart Garrett:

Last question for you guys. I’d love to just hear, and I have ideas as to what you may be experiencing, but I’d love to hear from you. What is it like for you? I mean, you’ve put all this work into it. You’ve settled on the theme. You’ve gotten everyone mic’d up and queued up and ready to go. You also have some of your own parts of the service, but there you are, sitting in the pew, so to speak. What’s going on in your head? What’s going on in your heart? How are you experiencing these two worship services?

Rachel Ingram:

Oh, boy. I think I am such a person who wants to control as many variables as I can, and I have to give that up going into this morning. Also, I know, I think one of the things that I remind myself constantly is our congregation is so good with the level of grace that’s given to students. So I think I get to a point where I internally am incredibly anxious, a little frantic going into it. And then the minute it starts, we settle and it’s like, this is going to be what it is going to be. And if I truly do trust God enough, and I trust our program enough, and I trust our kids enough, which we do. I mean, we give a lot of trust to our students. Then I’m going to believe that we have taught them well, that they’ve faithfully written the things, faithfully read the things, faithfully practiced what they need to, to be able to execute it well. And whatever it is, it will be and that’s okay. And every year they come up with things that are beautiful and insightful or funny mistakes and slip ups that they’re like, oh, I didn’t even know that that could happen. And it’s like, oh, okay. And we just kind of move on. And I think when I go home and I reflect on it, it’s always like, wow, we made a great memory for kids in their upbringing in this church that they know that this church is theirs in the future, but it is also theirs right now.

Bart Garrett:

Amen to that.

Rachel Ingram:

And that’s not a picture I’m willing to give up. So anything it takes to give them that I’m okay with.

Matt Daugherty:

And I would say I just feel both proud and grateful. It’s proud that God has called us into this, get to lead his children this way and just so grateful that this is often our opportunity to see behind the curtain in their own lives, to have them sit and have to think through these last four, maybe even seven years of their life and come to terms with what God has done for them. Like, they’re not always that eloquent in small group and so to get to sit there and like, for example, even though he was winging it most of the time in his own words. Asher was my first new student when I started here as a youth leader. He came in as a sixth grader and he was the first person that hadn’t been here before. And so him being now a graduating senior and just getting to watch him reflect is like, it’s hard not to be proud of the work that we’ve done, but also just so grateful at what God has done in their lives. And we also know like more of their stories than they’re able to share. And so to see the sorts of things that they’re saying and thinking and sharing while also knowing a little bit more of what was going on in their life around being able to say these things, it’s just, it’s a beautiful testament to the work that God does even outside of youth group times can do so much more than two hours a week and muster up.

Rachel Ingram:

Yeah, we feel, I don’t know if you feel this way, but I feel some of those things so big when they’re talking about them because you. As they talk about the memory and they reflect on it, I’m like, oh, I remember when that happened. I remember I was talking Nora Palsing through what she was gonna share today, and we were talking about different theater roles she played. And I was like, I remember when I saw you in that and I saw you in that, and I saw. And kind of walking from when she was playing smaller roles, when we went and saw her freshman year in Oklahoma, to when she had a lead in Into the Woods this spring, the evolution of. Or, like, really heavily charged emotional moments that they’re like, yeah, that was a big deal then. And now. Here’s my reflection on that. And it’s truly their growth trajectory that we get to witness. But, yeah, I forget that all of that comes back as they’re talking about it.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah.

Matt Daugherty:

Or Gideon talking about being a part of student leadership and how he almost didn’t finish his application, but we encouraged him. And just remembering that and being like, I know this is going to be a good opportunity for this person and just getting to see the little things that we do as work and seeing what that pays off through just God’s work in their lives based off of the small things that we are able to do.

Bart Garrett:

Well, Rachel and Matt, what a testimony. What you just said is to the engagement that you know these stories. I mean, listening in and hearing about someone’s development from sixth grade until now is just kind of the proof is in the pudding that you guys love and care for these students, that you truly have not only served them with the gospel, as Paul said, but with your very life as well. So I wanted to say again, thank you. I meant it two weeks ago. I mentioned it today. I just happened. I didn’t even realize Student Sunday was coming. When I said two weeks ago that our students are really setting the pace in our church, it was a very appropriately biblical thing to say based on where we were, but it’s so true. I just. I love it that our students are bringing their families and engaging in the gospel and growing deeper in their faith. And it’s a tribute to all the great work you’re doing. So thank you.

Rachel Ingram:

Thanks, Bart.

Bart Garrett:

Yeah, for sure. And everyone out there, have a great week. We’ll see you next week.

Matt Daugherty:

Sam.